Comments for Eirenikon http://eirenikon.wordpress.com Towards Orthodox-Catholic Reconciliation Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:39:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by Eirenikon Editor http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1217 Eirenikon Editor Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:16:07 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1217 Sorry, but I think it's time to close the combox. Sorry, but I think it’s time to close the combox.

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by diane http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1216 diane Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:59:14 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1216 OK, I think Joe's shot at the Immaculata has hereby reopened the discussion. Thankfully, he has reopened it in a forum in which personal insults are not tolerated and all views (including the Catholic one) are respected and permitted. IOW: a level playing field. For a change. Ergo.... Bring it on! :D God bless, Diane OK, I think Joe’s shot at the Immaculata has hereby reopened the discussion.

Thankfully, he has reopened it in a forum in which personal insults are not tolerated and all views (including the Catholic one) are respected and permitted.

IOW: a level playing field. For a change.

Ergo….

Bring it on! :D

God bless,

Diane

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by joe http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1215 joe Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:29:02 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1215 Despite this discussion being unofficially or officially closed, I will add my major reservation with the IC for whoever might be reading. If we take Irenaeus' and Athanasius' time-honored title for Mary as the "reversal of Eve" seriously, then I think it militates against the IC. Eve was born in a state of innocence and, along with Adam, fell into a state of sinfulness. It seems to me to be more truly a reversalof Eve if Mary was born into the same state of woundedness that we all are, but, through the grace released by Christ's Atonement, gradually achieved a state of sanctity until, at the Annunciation, she was completely and irrevocably cleansed of sin. Remember that in biblical language the one who has been forgiven sin is as if they had never sinned, so it would be completely appropriate to refer to her as sinless, because that was her final state. Also, in response to Diane's many posts, I do not think a private revelation which may or may not be authentic is a compelling reason to accept a dogma. Joe Despite this discussion being unofficially or officially closed, I will add my major reservation with the IC for whoever might be reading.
If we take Irenaeus’ and Athanasius’ time-honored title for Mary as the “reversal of Eve” seriously, then I think it militates against the IC. Eve was born in a state of innocence and, along with Adam, fell into a state of sinfulness. It seems to me to be more truly a reversalof Eve if Mary was born into the same state of woundedness that we all are, but, through the grace released by Christ’s Atonement, gradually achieved a state of sanctity until, at the Annunciation, she was completely and irrevocably cleansed of sin. Remember that in biblical language the one who has been forgiven sin is as if they had never sinned, so it would be completely appropriate to refer to her as sinless, because that was her final state.
Also, in response to Diane’s many posts, I do not think a private revelation which may or may not be authentic is a compelling reason to accept a dogma. Joe

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by T. Chan http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1214 T. Chan Tue, 19 Aug 2008 02:14:23 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1214 I guess the discussion is now over. I look forward to another good one. Thank you to everyone who participated! I guess the discussion is now over. I look forward to another good one. Thank you to everyone who participated!

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by diane http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1213 diane Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:50:35 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1213 Thank you, Ed de Vita, Father Paul, and everyone else. (Blush!) Thank you, Ed de Vita, Father Paul, and everyone else. (Blush!)

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by evagrius http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1211 evagrius Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:31:46 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1211 I think all who participated received some wisdom through having to reflect. I hope that the irenic Spirit which shone through continues to do so in all our lives. I think all who participated received some wisdom through having to reflect.

I hope that the irenic Spirit which shone through continues to do so in all our lives.

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by Edward De Vita http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1210 Edward De Vita Mon, 18 Aug 2008 20:13:50 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1210 "I’d like to thank Fr. Paul, T Chan, Ed de Vita, and Michael for a good discussion. There was some heat at times, but we all learned something. And I hope we came away from this discussion in better understanding of each others starting points. Many years to all of you." Thank you Photios. While I dropped out of the conversation mid-way (just got too busy with other things), I must say that it was a stimulating one. While I remain very much committed to the truth of IC, your critique did allow me to see some of the weaknesses in the western formulation. So, I thank you for that. May God bless you and yours and all those who cared enough about the holy Mother of God to participate in this discussion (and a special blessing to Diane who, I can see, has a great devotion to our Blessed Mother). Ed “I’d like to thank Fr. Paul, T Chan, Ed de Vita, and Michael for a good discussion. There was some heat at times, but we all learned something. And I hope we came away from this discussion in better understanding of each others starting points. Many years to all of you.”

Thank you Photios. While I dropped out of the conversation mid-way (just got too busy with other things), I must say that it was a stimulating one. While I remain very much committed to the truth of IC, your critique did allow me to see some of the weaknesses in the western formulation. So, I thank you for that. May God bless you and yours and all those who cared enough about the holy Mother of God to participate in this discussion (and a special blessing to Diane who, I can see, has a great devotion to our Blessed Mother).

Ed

]]> Comment on A little Marian levity by kepha http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/a-little-marian-levity/#comment-1209 kepha Mon, 18 Aug 2008 19:39:36 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-1209 LOL! I would've hated to have him as my confessor! Something tells me that he would not have tolerated my doubts for too long. LOL! I would’ve hated to have him as my confessor! Something tells me that he would not have tolerated my doubts for too long.

]]> Comment on A little Marian levity by photios http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/a-little-marian-levity/#comment-1208 photios Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:38:35 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=158#comment-1208 I found that very funny. But the priest did display the gnostic principle of the "prohibition of questions" toward the Dominicans. ;) I found that very funny. But the priest did display the gnostic principle of the “prohibition of questions” toward the Dominicans. ;)

]]> Comment on “The Immaculate Conception and the Orthodox Church” (4) by diane http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/the-immaculate-conception-and-the-orthodox-church-4/#comment-1207 diane Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:17:13 +0000 http://eirenikon.wordpress.com/?p=146#comment-1207 <i>If I got a vision, I would expect it to be consistent with previously revealed truth.</i> Me, too. :-) That is partly what's so impressive about Lourdes: It actually confirmed and corroborated the IC dogma, which had been officially proclaimed by the Vatican four years earlier. Kinda like Heaven's seal of approval, so to speak. Have you ever seen the old-timey movie <i>The Song of Bernadette</i>? (You can rent or buy it almost anywhere.) It's not as strictly historically accurate as the much more recent <i>Bernadette</i>, featuring soap star Sydney Penny. But it's a much better movie, partly because Sydney Penny can't act whereas Jennifer Jones could. Anyway, it's about 99% historically accurate, and the few lapses (for dramatic effect) don't impinge on the central facts of the case. It's a fabulous movie...you would love it. And, on that note, I will echo Photios' thanks to all and bow out of the discussion. In the Immaculata, Diane If I got a vision, I would expect it to be consistent with previously revealed truth.

Me, too. :-) That is partly what’s so impressive about Lourdes: It actually confirmed and corroborated the IC dogma, which had been officially proclaimed by the Vatican four years earlier. Kinda like Heaven’s seal of approval, so to speak.

Have you ever seen the old-timey movie The Song of Bernadette? (You can rent or buy it almost anywhere.) It’s not as strictly historically accurate as the much more recent Bernadette, featuring soap star Sydney Penny. But it’s a much better movie, partly because Sydney Penny can’t act whereas Jennifer Jones could. Anyway, it’s about 99% historically accurate, and the few lapses (for dramatic effect) don’t impinge on the central facts of the case. It’s a fabulous movie…you would love it.

And, on that note, I will echo Photios’ thanks to all and bow out of the discussion.

In the Immaculata,

Diane

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